Coded Logic

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Posts by Coded Logic

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  84

  Why I'm not agnostic

  by Coded Logic in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  i think the time to be agnostic is when you have evidence on both sides of a claim.

  for example, i'm agnostic about the existence of a historical jesus.

  i think a reasonable case can be made that jesus was a man who was turned into a legend over a period of a couple of decades.

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  Coded Logic

  You are wrong about what the article shows. It does not state the organic molecule forming a homochiral solution without a catalyst.
  -KW

  I didn't say it forms without a catalyst. I said "paper specifically shows how an organic system - without the need of an outside catalyst - can form a homochiral solution. It can happen without outside interference."

  As Crofty pointed out above it's called an autocatalyst. Systems will always move to their lowest stable energy state. Thus one reaction can be a catalyst for another reaction.

  All unguided attempts will always form a racemic mixture in the lab. That is a fact. It's science. It's chemistry.

  Life didn't start in a lab or in a clean room did it? It started in the chemically messy outdoors. And just because you don't presently know how a homochiral system first formed in nature doesn't mean we just get to jump to the conclusion that it was an intelligently guided process.

  We can't solve one mystery with another mystery. We can't explain one unknown by postulating the existence of another unknown.
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  84

  Why I'm not agnostic

  by Coded Logic in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  i think the time to be agnostic is when you have evidence on both sides of a claim.

  for example, i'm agnostic about the existence of a historical jesus.

  i think a reasonable case can be made that jesus was a man who was turned into a legend over a period of a couple of decades.

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  Coded Logic

  KateWild,

  I think the problem is you're only acknowledging the part of the paper that discusses how scientist in the past have achieved the process and you're ignoring the parts that show it can be part of a natural process. The paper specifically shows how an organic system - without the need of an outside catalyst - can form a homochiral solution. It can happen without outside interference. Thus, in specific circumstances, an "intelligence" is not required.

  Just because something can be done by intelligent beings - doesn't mean all examples of that thing are therefore the product of intelligent beings. For example, sometimes intelligent beings sculpt rocks into things that look like elephants:

  
  

  And sometimes blind forces of nature will sculpt rock formations into things that resemble elephants without any outside help.

  

  No intelligence required.
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  84

  Why I'm not agnostic

  by Coded Logic in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  i think the time to be agnostic is when you have evidence on both sides of a claim.

  for example, i'm agnostic about the existence of a historical jesus.

  i think a reasonable case can be made that jesus was a man who was turned into a legend over a period of a couple of decades.

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  Coded Logic

  SBF,

  Truth is not a theory. It's a label we apply to claims that meet a specific criteria.

  And words don't have intrinsic meanings. They have usages. A word means whatever two or more people agree it means. And the way I'm using the word is how just about every single English speaking person on this planet uses the word.

  But no matter, if you mean something OTHER than "claims that match reality" then please explain what you mean by "truth" and why it's relevant to our discussion.
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  15

  A question on natural selection

  by The Rebel in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  last friday my boy of ten was very late back from school, so i called the school, they called the police, and to cut a long horrible exsperience short he had been helping a younger boy fly his kite.. but what has occurred to me is that when orlando was 5 years old he was totally dependent on mummy and daddy, whilst horses, cats, birds and other animals are born and are independent within days.. so my question on natural selection is, how are we humuns still here?.

  the rebel..

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  Coded Logic

  Horses and cats are not "independent within a couple of days". Cats take months to be dependent. Horses take years.

  Animals that take care of their young have higher survival rates. Thus, they don't have to produce as many offspring.
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  75

  Evolution and Atheism - please help

  by Fernando in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  not being familiar with either, my question is:.

  what is the relationship between evolution and atheism?.

  i'd love to hear from anyone and everyone, and also from any perspective.. without limiting the conversation in any way, i would of course also appreciate comments that are simple, clear, direct and correct (as i don't have the capacity to do a phd in evolution or atheism)..

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  Coded Logic

  One is the explanation for the diverse speciation we see on our planet.

  The other is a lack of a belief in a God.
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  84

  Why I'm not agnostic

  by Coded Logic in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  i think the time to be agnostic is when you have evidence on both sides of a claim.

  for example, i'm agnostic about the existence of a historical jesus.

  i think a reasonable case can be made that jesus was a man who was turned into a legend over a period of a couple of decades.

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  2. 
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  Coded Logic

  KateWild,

  But doesn't the paper Crofty cited show that using simple organic materials an amino acid itself can amplify the concentration of one particular chiral form of reaction product? Wouldn't that imply the process doesn't have to be guided?
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  84

  Why I'm not agnostic

  by Coded Logic in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  i think the time to be agnostic is when you have evidence on both sides of a claim.

  for example, i'm agnostic about the existence of a historical jesus.

  i think a reasonable case can be made that jesus was a man who was turned into a legend over a period of a couple of decades.

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  2. 
  3. 
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  Coded Logic

  KateWild,

  Let me make sure I'm understanding your position correctly as we're talking about what is more likely. On one hand you have the odds of racemic mixtures proceeding with no guidance. On the other hand you have the odds of an intelligent being guiding the process.

  Is that correct?
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  84

  Why I'm not agnostic

  by Coded Logic in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  i think the time to be agnostic is when you have evidence on both sides of a claim.

  for example, i'm agnostic about the existence of a historical jesus.

  i think a reasonable case can be made that jesus was a man who was turned into a legend over a period of a couple of decades.

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  2. 
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  Coded Logic

  Yes, a claim can "match" reality. It can be an accurate descriptor of that which exists. I'm quite shocked you're trying to play hide the ball with the definition of truth. When people use the word "truth" this is what they mean. It's what I mean. It's the definition you'll find in the dictionary.

  Under Coherence Theory the Harry Potter novels would be "true" since they're internally consistent. That's not what I'm talking about when I'm addressing God claims. Many God concepts are coherent. That doesn't make them real.

  noun, plural truths

  [trooth z, trooths]

  1.

  the true or actual state of a matter:

  He tried to find out the truth.

  2.

  conformity with fact or reality; verity:

  the truth of a statement.

  3.

  a verified or indisputable fact, proposition, principle, or the like:

  mathematical truths.

  4.

  the state or character of being true.

  5.

  actuality or actual existence.
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  84

  Why I'm not agnostic

  by Coded Logic in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  i think the time to be agnostic is when you have evidence on both sides of a claim.

  for example, i'm agnostic about the existence of a historical jesus.

  i think a reasonable case can be made that jesus was a man who was turned into a legend over a period of a couple of decades.

  1. 
  2. 
  3. 
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  Coded Logic

  I assesd the probability of an intelligent being guiding evolution by my study of chemistry.

  What in your study of chemistry led you to the conclusion that an intelligent being was guiding evolution?
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  84

  Why I'm not agnostic

  by Coded Logic in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  i think the time to be agnostic is when you have evidence on both sides of a claim.

  for example, i'm agnostic about the existence of a historical jesus.

  i think a reasonable case can be made that jesus was a man who was turned into a legend over a period of a couple of decades.

  1. 
  2. 
  3. 
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  Coded Logic

  The definition of "knowledge" is justified true belief.

  We've gone over at least a dozen times before, truth is the label we apply to claims that match reality. In order to see if a claim matches reality - we LOOK AT REALITY! e.g. - evidence.

  That's not circular reasoning. It's modus ponens. And without that assessment a belief can't be justified.

  I genuinely don't know why you have such difficulty getting your head around this. The validity of any tool is how well it performs its intended function. It's not circular reasoning to asses a hammer by how well it drive nails. The same is true of reason and evidence. Their validity is assessed by their explanatory and predictive abilities.